WEBVTT 00:00:01.620 --> 00:00:37.450 Yeah, I didn't know what that was. 00:00:37.470 --> 00:01:11.840 We'll call the meeting to order. Do we have a quorum? We do have a quorum, but I'll call the roll and confirm that, too. Mayor Miller? Here. Alderpersons, Clem? Here. Monroe and Simmons are absent. Parker? Here. Stacy? Here. Shadle is absent. Sanders? 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:19.300 and Sellers. Yeah. Yes, we do have a quorum. Okay. Could we all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? 00:01:19.300 --> 00:01:36.720 I pledge allegiance to the Lord of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:40.620 --> 00:01:49.810 Okay. Can I have a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. Second. 00:01:49.810 --> 00:02:21.470 Second. Okay. It was approved first by Clemm and second by Parker. Just a second. I'm trying to write into that. All those in favor? Aye. Okay. Any opposed? Nope. Let's move on to... Okay. A motion to waive the requirements for only this meeting of Section 00:02:21.470 --> 00:02:53.790 220-1023B, Rules of Counsel, addressed by non-members to increase the time allowed to five minutes for members of the public to speak. Is there a motion? So moved. Second. Okay, it was moved by Parker this time and second by Clem. Are there any, help me, I just, yes, any in favor? 00:02:53.810 --> 00:03:07.750 All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay. So we move that to five minutes now instead of three. Overview of budget process by Finance Director Michelle Richter. 00:03:08.750 --> 00:03:23.310 Thank you, Alderman Sellers. Our budgeting process began quite a few months ago. Towards the end of July, beginning of August, our department heads started to gather their departmental budgets. 00:03:23.810 --> 00:03:53.790 They look at past history, they look at the previous budget and they start compiling their information into each individual section that they are responsible for. Once that is completed, they are reviewed by the city manager and we've been in the process of presenting these budgets to the finance committee of the whole over the past couple months. 00:03:53.810 --> 00:04:17.690 We have also had one previous public input session. This is our second public input session. We will have two more meetings presenting various pieces of the budget before we get to the actual passing of the ordinance, our first reading. 00:04:17.690 --> 00:04:49.050 The other two meetings that are to follow, so in the agenda this evening were attachments to all the presentations we've had so far. We've had, I think, five finance committees of the whole so far. Our next finance committee of the whole next week will cover some of our grant budgets. We have several of those. We'll be covering the fire pension, the police pension, and foreign fire. 00:04:49.770 --> 00:05:14.550 And so that will kind of wrap up us touching each one of the budgets and departmental budgets at least for the first time. Since it has been, you know, two months since we've started this process, some of the numbers are going to be tweaked. They're going to change. Quite honestly, just in the mail today, and if you don't mind, Alderman Parker, I'll share. 00:05:14.550 --> 00:05:44.530 We just received the latest projection numbers of revenue estimates for the state of Illinois from IML. This one just came in the mail today, so I'll be reviewing this in depth to look at our budget numbers. So once we've presented everything once, finance is going to go through it again, city manager is going to be going through it again, all of us will give it another final review, there might be a few tweaks, and then that whole, those tweaks will also come 00:05:44.530 --> 00:06:15.690 to council. And so you'll see all of those and the public as well. Prior, the last thing, the prior to the first reading of the 2025 appropriation, there will be a additional public comment that will be held prior to the meeting that night. Okay. Do you have any dates on when those other two meetings will be? 00:06:15.690 --> 00:06:45.570 so we will have a finance committee of the whole on November 4th next Monday at five o'clock then we'll also have a finance committee of the whole on the 12th okay that's a Tuesday after the holiday and then on November 18th is the intended first reading of the 2025 appropriation and 00:06:45.570 --> 00:07:17.380 It will require two readings for passage. Okay. Anyone have any questions? If not, do we vote on this? Okay. Okay. We'll move on to number seven, overview of the budget that has been reviewed to date by city manager, Boyer, and finance director, Richter, for September 9th, 2024, for September 16th, 2024, for October 00:07:17.380 --> 00:07:23.920 October 7th, 2024, October 15th, 2024, and October 21st, 2024. 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:25.820 Manager Boyer. 00:07:26.280 --> 00:07:27.280 Thank you, Your Honor. 00:07:27.540 --> 00:07:34.900 We have already reviewed the City Council budget, and that total amount is $35,760. 00:07:35.200 --> 00:07:40.640 We have gone over the Commission's budget, and the total amount there is $40,020. 00:07:41.820 --> 00:07:47.140 We've reviewed the City Clerk's budget at $172,915. 00:07:47.380 --> 00:08:17.360 The Communications Department at $88,950. We've also reviewed the City Manager and Mayor Budget, which is $215,110. We've also reviewed the Legal Budget, which is $296,000. The Finance Budget, which is $159,750. We've reviewed the Buildings Budget at $276,000. 00:08:17.380 --> 00:08:46.940 $22,725. We've reviewed community development budget at $481,820. Human resources budget at $112,350. And the hearing and administrative budget, which is $25,000. We've reviewed interdepartmental budget at $5,004,465. And we've looked at the 00:08:46.940 --> 00:09:24.920 The MIS budget, which is our information systems budget, at $784,438. You have to bear with me. I have some of the pages turned around in here a little bit. We've also reviewed the police budget at $7,109,750. The drug forfeiture fund, which is essentially a net zero, but $20,000 in income, $20,000 of expenses. 00:09:25.680 --> 00:09:55.680 We've reviewed the fire budget at $6,772,965. The fire public safety fund, which is again similar to the drug forfeiture fund, it has an income of $12,500 and expenses of $12,500. We have the fire improvement fund with a revenue of $2,146,750 00:09:55.680 --> 00:09:58.960 2,170,795 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:30.600 $795 in the fire improvement fund. We've discussed in detail on that. We have the downtown TIF fund with a revenue of $702,205 and expenses of the same. The Lamb Road TIF fund, which is $3,851,455 and expenses of the same. The West Avenue TIF fund, $680,000 00:10:30.600 --> 00:11:00.080 $1,115, and then expenses of the same. The Bircher Hills TIF Fund, which is $20,025 and expenses of $20,025. The Meadows TIF, which is $251,190 and expenses of $251,190 as well. And then Projects Fund, non-departmental, which is essentially a zero. Then we have the sidewalk program, which we're budgeting $20,000 for the sidewalk program. 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:35.560 then trail and other projects $21,000 and downtown revitalization loan program of 45,000 and expenses of 45,000 so that's that's the September 16th discussion see here tab three October 3rd we discussed the revenues so the total revenues are 00:11:35.560 --> 00:12:03.560 $75,485,575 for the city. We have a government buildings budget, which is $262,500, the cemetery care fund, which is $15,200, the neighborhood housing fund, which is $625,000, and tourism fund of $285,000. 00:12:03.560 --> 00:12:29.200 In addition to that, we did debt service at revenue of $4,531,760 and then also expense of $4,531,760 and then health care fund $3,159,010 and expenses of $3,159,010. 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:54.430 Landfill Closure Fund, we have a revenue of $603,205 and an expense of $503,205 with $100,000 going to build that account balance. We had the downtown revitalization loan, and as I already mentioned, was $45,000. 00:12:55.030 --> 00:13:04.800 You said that October 3rd? 00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:06.020 I'm sorry, October 7th. 00:13:06.020 --> 00:13:06.440 Oh, okay. 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:25.890 stand corrected. October 15th will be next. Public Works Budget. Public Works is zeroed out this year. 00:13:27.190 --> 00:13:36.910 That would be the Public Works Director Budget. Under the Street Department, we are budgeting $3,527,205. 00:13:36.910 --> 00:13:48.600 Under the Airport, we are budgeting $654,435. Under the Cemetery Budget, 00:13:49.240 --> 00:14:18.640 We are budgeting $94,420. Under our forestry budget, we're budgeting $401,580. Under animal control, we're budgeting $88,245,000. And under traffic engineering, we're budgeting $63,000. Under street lights, we're budgeting $321,000. And in motor fuel tax, we're expecting to get roughly a million 00:14:18.640 --> 00:15:02.120 This is a projection, but $1,030,000. Under the Street Improvement Fund, we're expecting to receive $4,316,000 and expend the same amount. And then our next one to review is October 21st. When we did that, we went over all the capital projects, transportation facilities, water projects. So under transportation, we're budgeting a total 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:35.740 for next year of $3,033,100. Under facilities, we're budgeting $13,160,000. Under water projects, we're budgeting $38 million. I'm sorry, stand by. I'm sorry, water projects is $13,160,000. Facilities is $3 million. And transportation projects is $8,800,000. Under wastewater projects, $38 million. 00:15:35.740 --> 00:16:09.000 $1,760,000, stormwater projects $1,150,000, and vehicles and equipment we're budgeting $1,315,000. Under the street improvement fund we expect to receive, and I think we already just went over that, I'm going to move along, capital equipment fund we're budgeting $996,525,000. In the water fund, and this is including all revenue sources, including loans, 00:16:09.260 --> 00:16:49.540 We're budgeting $10,327,410. And on the expense side, on capital equipment fund, we're budgeting $996,525, as we mentioned before. And the sewer fund, we are budgeting $5,429,150. And under storm sewer, we're budgeting $1,272,000 00:16:49.540 --> 00:17:24.280 dollars and two hundred and six hundred dollars and then on the expenses we're budgeting to five million four hundred twenty nine thousand one hundred fifty and that includes debt repayments and revenues. In addition to that, I think that kind of brings us to a conclusion. We've pretty much gone through all the budgets so far. Are there any questions? I do have one. Sure. 00:17:24.280 --> 00:17:37.750 Well, it's a, um, when you talked about the cemetery, you did, you talked about that twice, you did a 19 and a 15, why is the cemetery in two different cemeteries? 00:17:37.990 --> 00:17:41.830 You're thinking of the cemetery care fund as well as the cemetery operations budget. 00:17:41.910 --> 00:17:52.930 Oh, okay, so that's, okay, those are the two. And then, um, another one, the neighborhood housing fund, what, what is that? I did get a call, someone wanted to understand what was the neighborhood housing fund. 00:17:52.930 --> 00:18:21.600 That's the real estate transfer tax, so anytime there's a sale of property, it's .004 is what we take out of that, and we take that money, and that's what goes towards our demolitions, and a little bit of that goes towards economic development, but that tax is all from the real estate transfer selling a property. 00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:25.600 So anytime a property is sold, it goes into that fund and we use it for demolitions 00:18:25.600 --> 00:18:26.700 Okay, thank you 00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:28.080 And then I have another one 00:18:28.080 --> 00:18:29.700 You talked about the streetlights 00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:31.740 What is that going to consist of? 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:33.160 It's mostly the power bill 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:33.820 Oh, okay 00:18:33.820 --> 00:18:34.080 Yeah 00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:34.700 Okay 00:18:34.700 --> 00:18:41.100 And this sidewalk, is that that 50-50 deal or what is that? 00:18:41.180 --> 00:18:42.020 That's it, yep 00:18:42.020 --> 00:18:43.980 And you said that was $20,000? 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:44.520 Yes 00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:45.820 Okay, thank you 00:18:45.820 --> 00:18:47.840 Anyone else have any questions? 00:18:50.490 --> 00:18:52.350 If not, we'll move on to number eight 00:18:52.350 --> 00:18:57.130 discussion of remaining budget by city manager, Boyer, and finance director, Richter. 00:18:57.610 --> 00:19:01.430 Michelle, would you go ahead and take this one? You kind of touched on this already, but. 00:19:03.450 --> 00:19:18.570 The only budgets that are left are the grant budget, so we'll have several grants, you know, be that police department, community development, there's several grants we'll go through next week. 00:19:18.570 --> 00:19:48.070 and then we'll have the fire pension the police pension and foreign fire those are real those budgets are really not set by council those are fiduciary funds so we just kind of watch over them but we don't have a say they have their own boards the foreign fire board makes their decisions we just we do include them as part of our audit and part of our things but 00:19:48.070 --> 00:19:57.730 they have their own boards that approve their budgets, but we do include them with us. So that's why we kind of keep those at the end. 00:19:57.730 --> 00:20:25.980 that's why we kind of keep those at the end and really that's we just have those budgets to go over we'll be discussing the property tax abatements just as kind of maybe more of an educational why do we do it that kind of thing we'll discuss it before those will come up those will be an ordinance that we'll have to read to what you know go through to readings on so we're going to bring that up hopefully on I believe on the next meeting on the fourth 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:47.000 We were due to talk about the tax levy on the 4th as well, but I don't have the EAV numbers quite yet, so that will probably be deferred to the finance cow of November 12th. That is a very important piece to have before we kind of wrap things up with setting the 2025 budget. 00:20:48.520 --> 00:20:50.060 Are there any other questions? 00:20:50.060 --> 00:21:10.700 I'd like to say something about these board of directors and these boards for our departments and how we got it set up and how it was governed and who are the people that are on these boards. 00:21:10.700 --> 00:21:34.290 Do we have any perspective on how this is set up within the city that we have no way to make a determination or judge or whatever have anything to say about these boards? 00:21:34.290 --> 00:22:05.550 How is that set up and why is it separate from the council that the council cannot intervene or discuss the matters of the boards for every department within the city? Is it a policy set up or governing body that sets that up or an administration that sets that up? How is it that it's separated from the council? I'm just trying to find out why is that excluded from the council? 00:22:05.570 --> 00:22:32.490 being able to review any of this stuff by board members or whatever and who are the board members that plays a part. I like to have those things revealed to us. I like to hear those persons who are on these boards and how it came about because there's no historical. I have not heard anything about how these things just come. 00:22:32.490 --> 00:22:35.690 Alderman Sanders, is there a particular board you're questioning? 00:22:35.990 --> 00:22:37.450 Yeah, I'm talking about all the boards. 00:22:37.570 --> 00:22:49.030 Okay, so that's, okay, so how that is, is those spots are appointed by the mayor and approved by the council, so you have approved those, a lot of them. 00:22:50.210 --> 00:22:54.290 When they come before the council, you either say yes or no. That's how they're seated. 00:22:55.470 --> 00:23:02.470 And they're on for so long, so it might have been some of them that are on, correct me, 00:23:02.490 --> 00:23:09.510 Some of them are, have already been established and they're still on there because they're, are they like four and five year terms? 00:23:09.510 --> 00:23:22.370 It just depends. Some are three year terms. Some of them are seven year terms. It just depends on which one. And so when someone is appointed by me, they have to be approved by you on all boards. 00:23:22.370 --> 00:23:50.070 I'm trying to understand the process of how it is that you're determining what boards are elected to whatever department. I think we're out of order with that sequence because it has not been something that we talked about as a council nor as an administration for the city. 00:23:50.070 --> 00:24:20.010 so I'm just trying to see how we got there that's what I'm it says been that process for as long as I've known yeah it's set by ordinance yeah as long as if it's an ordinance then we say that it's an ordinance that's what I'm saying if it's an ordinance that is already been part of policy that helps to govern the departments of these administration and then who are they reporting to the boards who 00:24:20.010 --> 00:24:49.690 Who do they report to? If we have questions, we might want to question the board in regards of their duties, whatever that's happening. We have not been in an arena where we have this kind of discussion. And I'd like to know why it sounds like it's being omitted from the council that we have not had an opportunity not even to introduce ourselves. 00:24:50.010 --> 00:25:15.450 to these boards and board of directors. So I'm just trying to figure out how we got to where we are and how I should look at it and how the council should look at the situation because we just can't keep doing the same old thing over and over if there's no oversight committees, if there's no oversight to talk about these boards. 00:25:15.450 --> 00:25:21.830 I'd like to hear a full-blown discussion about how board of directors operate within the city 00:25:21.830 --> 00:25:27.030 Well, that's really a wrong term you're using there, Alderman Sanders, they're not a board of directors 00:25:27.030 --> 00:25:35.050 There's boards, there's commissions, there's that type of thing, and again, like the clerk said, that's all set by ordinance 00:25:35.050 --> 00:25:38.970 So if you wanted to look up the ordinance, it's been in place for years 00:25:38.970 --> 00:25:42.430 So why have a board if they're not called board of directors? 00:25:42.710 --> 00:25:43.930 They're not called board of directors 00:25:43.930 --> 00:25:52.690 I know they're not called Board of Directors according to your, I don't know, who makes that definition? 00:25:52.690 --> 00:25:53.250 Madam Chair? 00:25:53.690 --> 00:25:54.870 I guess, yeah. 00:25:54.870 --> 00:25:55.430 Who defines it? 00:25:55.850 --> 00:26:03.510 I'd be happy to speak on the makeup of the Foreign Fire Insurance Board if you care to hear that. 00:26:03.770 --> 00:26:05.150 Yeah, whatever board we have. 00:26:05.150 --> 00:26:05.670 I'd be happy. 00:26:05.670 --> 00:26:33.110 So regarding fire department, the foreign fire insurance board, that is set by a statute whereas the board members are elected from the fire department. So there's an officer and then served as a president, secretary, treasurer, myself as ex officio. So any matters related to foreign fire are submitted very much modeling after the city council here. 00:26:33.110 --> 00:27:03.030 they're submitted to the Council for Foreign Fire Board for consideration, discussion takes place, is it within the guidelines of the purchasing provisions of foreign fire that is voted on by the board members? How funds are generated by foreign fire that consists of outside insurance companies, out-of-state insurance companies that by federal statute they have 00:27:03.030 --> 00:27:09.690 to provide 2% of those revenues back to the fire department for the use and benefit of the department. 00:27:10.330 --> 00:27:20.810 So that's very specific language that governs that use. And so annually, finance receives a check, which is generated by the IML. 00:27:20.810 --> 00:27:32.670 They manage all this. They take a small portion out for their oversight of this fund, and then they submit a revenue check to the foreign fire insurance board 00:27:32.670 --> 00:27:44.730 Board, they review it, sign off on it, and it goes into the account. So it's a small amount, but that oversight and those personnel are defined by statute. 00:27:45.810 --> 00:27:46.530 By statute. 00:27:46.670 --> 00:27:50.450 And then Finance Director Richter wanted to speak. Go ahead. 00:27:52.290 --> 00:28:00.210 The fire pension and police pension are similar. So other cities work exactly the same way as we do. 00:28:00.210 --> 00:28:32.200 they have their own pension board trustees and their trustees they're entrusted with the fire and police pension dollars and to manage those correctly so that their pensions are there when they retire. Okay. Are there any other questions? Okay. All of the minutes for all of the board and commission, all the boards and commissions are included in the consent agenda with every 00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:54.100 With every council meeting, they are their own bodies, so they approve their own minutes, but a courtesy copy is provided to council and the public with every agenda. When you go through that long, when the mayor reads that long list of minutes, you can see what determinations have been made by those boards and commissions. 00:28:54.100 --> 00:29:16.860 So those boards, I'm sorry, those boards are making decisions on behalf of the board, of the fire department, police department, any other department. They're the ones that are making the decision, they're the decision makers. Am I correct? 00:29:16.860 --> 00:29:19.160 Chair? Yes, go ahead. 00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:26.140 Not the fire department, only the fire pensions and only the police pensions. 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:39.220 Okay. How, excuse me, how involved are boards within the administration of the police and the fire department and any other department? 00:29:39.220 --> 00:29:44.900 I keep saying that because I'm going to nail it down eventually. Would all departments have boards? 00:29:44.900 --> 00:29:55.220 and if they had not been disclosed to the council, we need to know who they are, what they are, and I like to know the individuals. 00:29:55.220 --> 00:30:22.180 The individuals that are on these boards making decisions, making decisions for financial, fire, police, and anybody else, I need to see who are the board of directors, well you say they're not board of directors, they are appointed, but they're still acting like board of directors, that's the functionalities of a board. 00:30:22.180 --> 00:30:45.960 So my thing is what is or who are the people that's being appointed to these boards who are making decisions within the city that involves taxpayers' dollars? Whenever they're having board members, they're talking about taxpayers' affairs and things of this nature. 00:30:45.960 --> 00:31:15.940 So I'm just trying to see what are they doing that the city council is not doing, because they're able to meet, and city council are not meeting, unless you call this as a meeting, and we're not separate, they're separate from the council, and we don't get to integrate or to talk about the functionalities of these boards, and that's my problem 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:32.040 But you have, you have the right to go to any of those meetings if you want to. You can go to the fire, you can go to the liquor, you can go, you can go to any of those meetings if you want to. So, oh, the chief, go ahead. 00:31:32.040 --> 00:31:44.660 Alderman Sanders, I can tell you, I've been on the police pension board since 2012. So, they say it's set by ordinance, but I believe the ordinance probably mirrors the statute, state statute. 00:31:44.660 --> 00:31:51.060 Institute. So our board consists of two active participants, two people from the police department. 00:31:51.780 --> 00:31:58.660 So the police department then votes on who they want to go, who they want to be on the board, and that's a two-year term. 00:31:59.020 --> 00:32:07.320 There's also a retiree that's on the board, and then there's two appointees, and they consist of two individuals from the community. 00:32:07.320 --> 00:32:37.060 both of them work at financial institutions. When it comes to managing the funds, I mean, we used to have more involvement with investments when we had a consultant, but ever since the money has been consolidated, all the police fire funds are consolidated and controlled now by the state of Illinois, so we really have zero input on how it's invested, but we do have a meeting this Wednesday at 11 in here, and I know it's posted, 00:32:37.320 --> 00:33:01.100 and you're welcome to come if you want to. Can I ask how many people own these boards? I don't have my glasses on. And I don't really know what this has to do with the budget. Those are questions that you can ask those questions. Taxpayers' dollars are involved, so it has a lot to do with budgeting. 00:33:01.100 --> 00:33:27.440 Larry, we're going to keep the meeting on the budget, but you can get that, get a copy of that, you can take it home, and you can look it over, and you can go over it, and you will know who's all on every board, and what, is it the times that they have their meetings, is that, that is a list of who they are, the times are also available on the website, the directory is available on the website, okay, okay. 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.700 So we'll get you a copy of that and then you'll know who's all in it. 00:33:30.700 --> 00:33:31.700 This is your copy, Dovie? 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.860 That sits by the front desk in case anybody comes in and asks for it. 00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:36.220 Okay. 00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:40.960 Okay, we'll move on to, are there any other comments? 00:33:41.840 --> 00:33:42.540 Thank God, no. 00:33:42.580 --> 00:33:45.320 If not, let's move on to number nine, public input. 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.420 I don't have anything. 00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:48.920 Does anybody sign in? 00:33:49.080 --> 00:33:50.340 Did anybody sign in? 00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:51.300 Oh, no. 00:33:51.580 --> 00:33:52.420 Andrea said no. 00:33:52.940 --> 00:33:54.500 Is there, huh? 00:33:54.600 --> 00:33:55.140 From the floor. 00:33:55.140 --> 00:34:02.420 Now, is anybody from the floor wanting to speak? You're more than welcome. I guess not. Motion to adjourn. 00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:37.340 Come up front. Speak on the budget or speak on. She's running. Hi, my name is Sue Cook and I was just, when I listened to the city council meeting this past week, there was a mention about the fire truck and that we needed to order the fire truck 00:34:37.340 --> 00:35:06.260 is that correct so that because the fire truck it takes approximately four years and our fire truck over at park and park street is approximately 14 years old and having dealing with an old car myself when you hit that that point because it sounded like 15 is about the point where a fire truck started to be put into retirement because they've taken such good care of it if we go ahead and order 00:35:06.260 --> 00:35:36.080 that truck now at a million, or how was it a million? 1.2. 1.2 million. Rather than wait until four years from now when it's maybe 6.2 million for the truck, and then you have to wait another four years. If you did that, you would have an 18-year-old truck. Now, Mr. Monroe brought up the fact that how many fires, catastrophic fires, have we had? And I think you mentioned three. 00:35:36.260 --> 00:35:40.220 Is that correct that you said three? Or did he ask about a number? 00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:53.860 That was an incident with that particular vehicle. And through our use, three times that ladder has actually made contact with the building back in. That's what he was talking about. 00:35:53.860 --> 00:35:54.860 Oh, that's okay. Okay. 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:59.700 It's just, it's supposed to be just public comment and not... 00:35:59.700 --> 00:36:00.780 Oh, I'm terribly sorry. 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:02.360 Yep, that's all right. That's all right. 00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:30.500 And one of the things I wanted to say is we do have tall buildings, Hosmer, Brewster, Lincoln Towers, we have the old Stevenson Hotel down here. We have the Metal Ridge, Park Ridge, where there are people that can't get out. So if we have another truck and a truck in reserve, it's going to be a lot safer for the citizens to have that new truck and a truck in reserve. 00:36:30.500 --> 00:36:52.700 So that 14 year old truck, by the time that new truck comes is going to be 18. If they take meticulous care of it, you have a new truck, you have one in reserve. And minutes do count, especially if people are on balconies, especially if there's elderly people on balconies needing help. 00:36:52.700 --> 00:37:24.380 it can really count and so I think that it's I think that it's a wonderful investment because it's an investment in people and it's an investment in citizens it isn't throwing money to the wind you have a reserve truck and a new truck coming in four years that's an awesome investment thank you very much thank you thank you are there any other if not 00:37:24.380 --> 00:37:46.050 not. Can I get a motion for adjournment? Can I get a second? Anybody want us to? I'll second. Okay. It's been first and second by Parker and Clemm. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed?